Ancillary Sword discussion thread!

[kaberett]

Because, yep, it's out tomorrow. :-) There will be spoilers in comments.

And before it gets to us... thoughts on the first three chapters (if you've read 'em)?

ALSO it is probably worth noticing - in case any of you don't subscribe to annleckie_feed - that Ann Leckie is doing a Reddit Ask Me Anything, with some questions (left in comments at her blog) already answered in the body of the post! I am going to try not to hit refresh endlessly...

Comments

[kaberett]

Based on the first 3 chapters, I'm still tantalised and confused about Anaander Mianaai's origins, but it sounds like we might actually get some details on that MAYBE. Also interesting power plays and interesting interactions with Medic; I am eager to see how those play out.

(And, of course, Awn's sibling is still out there...)

(And, of course, there's the question of who exactly this baby Lieutenant is going to end up being; and there's the question -- well, Breq says it's impossible that the baby Lieutenant will ever be their previous self again, but I cannot but remember that Strigan said she was very nearly sure she could restore the existence of Breq's-previous-body-owner. And this brings us right back to the central questions of identity and what it means to have an identity...)

[rmc28]

I loved getting a name for One Amaat One - Nysene Ptem - and the pointed naming-in-daily-prayers of both Nysene and Awn.

The baby lieutenant thread made me nearly cry - I think it's flagged pretty strongly what's going on and I was sharing with Breq the trepidation and wishing-I-was-wrong. What happens next (I will find out tomorrow)

[kaberett]

augh yes the naming in daily prayers definitely made me cry. ;_;

[davidgillon]

I'm having a leisurely reread of Justice and Sword and I've noticed that while Justice throws a lot of hints about Breq and religion - especially that icon that looks like her - Sword never really picks them up. Left for Mercy, or forgotten about?

[kaberett]

Hmm, I don't think that's quite true? The opening is very focussed on the religious rites of the ship, including noting which icons Breq puts in place in addition to Kalr (EskVar, She Who Rises, and uh the other one) -- I think it's just... a different slant?

[davidgillon]

That's a fair point. I think we're looking at two different aspects of religiousity: in Sword it's religion as everyday, and I'm not so sure Breq isn't just going through the motions while using religious metaphor to make political points*; whereas in Justice things like the icon seem to hint at what Breq was up to during those lost 19 years between Awn's death and her finding Seivarden.

*Or, alternative interpretation that occurred to me as I was about to press post, Breq is doing them as a memoriam to Awn.

[nenya_kanadka]

(Having just realized this comm was here, and reading through it with a grin on my face--)

I have it from a comment at ann_leckie's DW that the part with the icon that looked like Breq is indeed a reference to what she got up to in the intervening 19 years--specifically to events that take place in the short story "She Commands Me And I Obey" (Part One | Part Two) which were in Strange Horizons online in November.

(Which you probably have already seen, but just in case!)

[kaberett]

(I am so enjoying getting your delighted comments about the existence of this comm, for realsies. :D)

[nenya_kanadka]

In the ouroborous of the Internet, I found a link to an interview with Ann Leckie on Tor, which I was linked to by someone on Dreamwidth, in which there was a link back here. :D Am so happy to have found it (even though I'm not commenting much on the older threads) since so far I haven't found many places to discuss it. (Lots of places going "OMG THIS IS AWESOME READ IT NOW" which I totally agree with, but no meta and such. So yay!)

[davidgillon]

(Which you probably have already seen, but just in case!)

Keep reading ;)

[nenya_kanadka]

*koff* About twenty minutes after I posted this last comment, I came across y'all's several thorough posts on the subject... Ahem. Blush. Etc. :D

*waves hello*

[davidgillon]

Waves back ;)

[davidgillon]

it's out tomorrow. :-)

I guess that answers the question of what I'm reading on the train back up North ;) Splending timing!

[kaberett]

HURRAH

[rmc28]

I got my email notification that the paperback has been posted :-)

I am going to be good and I am not going to stay up until midnight and then read the kindle version the rest of the night.

[rmc28]

Of course if I happen to wake / be woken in the night after midnight all bets are off.

Ann Leckie says she'll start replies "at about 7pm Eastern" which I think means "about midnight" too.

[frith_in_thorns]

I actually bought it from Waterstones Oxford on Saturday and I can confirm that IT IS SO INCREDIBLY GOOD.

(I won't say more until it's officially out.)

[rmc28]

JEALOUSY :-)

IN WHICH I HAVE SOME FEELINGS

[kaberett]

• I actually cried at the end, because we finished AJ with Mercy of Kalr saying "I'm what you've lost and you're what I've lost", and -- having Ship do its best to comfort Breq just. Yes. Tears everywhere.
  
• I am somewhat confused as to why this was the book called Ancillary Sword, given that the ship in question is a Mercy. Unless it's about Sword of Atagaris or for that matter about Breq as the sword of justice (the flower of justice is peace; I am the sword of justice...), given that what "justice" actually means was, er, obviously a running theme.
  
• I am very glad Breq came out to her crew.
  
• I am so so fond of Kalr Five, wow.
  
• To my complete fascination, we still don't really know anything about Anaander Mianaai's origins.
  
• I felt like we... didn't really get any resolution of any kind in this book? As though it mostly set up more problems?
  
• but it didn't treat addiction/mental illness like they have easy cures, for which, Thank You.

probably more? PROBABLY MORE.

Re: IN WHICH I HAVE SOME FEELINGS

[davidgillon]

As to why this book is 'Ancillary Justice' - perhaps solely to give the room to call the next book 'Ancillary Mercy'?

Re: IN WHICH I HAVE SOME FEELINGS

[vass]

perhaps solely to give the room to call the next book 'Ancillary Mercy'?

This occurred to me too.

Re: IN WHICH I HAVE SOME FEELINGS

[vass]

but it didn't treat addiction/mental illness like they have easy cures, for which, Thank You.

*nodnod* Also injuries, like Breq's leg.

I was half-waiting/expecting for someone, probably Anaander Mianaai, to use Seivarden's addiction as a vulnerability to exploit. That was my earliest guess at what was happening with Tisarwat and the drugs (she's going to try to give them to her, or when that fails then plant them on her for Breq to find or even forcibly dose Seivarden up, to weaken Breq's base of people she trusts.) I was very glad to be wrong (even while OMG, LECKIE, WAY TO THINK OF SOMETHING MORE HORRIFYING FOR TISARWAT. D: )

[davidgillon]

It was a wonderful read, but it didn't do anything of what I expected, to the point that I now have to completely revise my expectations of what the trilogy is trying to address. I'd assumed that the overall backdrop would be the Anaander Mianaai civil war, with Breq* wrapped up in that, but clearly that isn't the case. Maybe we're looking at something more like Cherryh's Foreigner series (or indeed most of Cherryh's work) where the overall world-changing conflict that would dominate anyone else's story is purely the backdrop against which an intra-household conflict is played out. Or maybe it's all about the Presger, and that gun.

I'd assumed Breq was more sympathetic to their Anaander Mianaai than appears to be true. I think she is more sympathetic to the cause of not-blowing-up-gates, admits-exterminating-an-entire-planet-might-have-been-a-tad-over-the-top, but the moment when she strangles Tisarwat to force AM out, plus some later comments suggest she's successfully distinguishing between cause and leader. I do worry over her judgement, hatred for AM is all very well, but AM is the leadership of the entire Radch, take AM (all of them) out of the situation and the Radch descends into chaos and anarchy as every governor, captain, and citizens like Fosyf and Raughd Denche decides now is the moment for them to take charge. Maybe she recognises that, and that's why her focus revolves around the small, intensely personal goal of protecting Basnaaid Elming, but actions like her strangling of Tisarwat are problematic - Tisarwat as AM's glove-puppet was more predictably manipulatable towards those goals than Tisarwat as an abused, emotional 17yo with 3000 years of political manouevring to draw on.

Which raises the observation that if AM recognised Breq as coming closer to her own experience of living than anyone else, then Tisarwat now comes closer to that for both Breq and for AM. (And I wonder at analogies with the Presger Translator - I would have liked to see a lot more of her)

And drawing on both those points; AM and Breq have created a monster, a damaged 17yo with an incredible ability to manipulate to her own ends. Tisarwat's using her powers for good at the moment, but what happens when she and AM come back into contact? Tisarat knows she was essentially murdered by AM, while AM knows Tisarwat has all of her knowledge, but no loyalty to her. It's not a situation that promises to end well.

WRT Kalr Five, this strikes me as a clear nod to the traditions of naval fiction; the captain's servant is absolutely a traditional role that needs to be filled. I was struck when Breq moved herself ashore that she was actually behaving exactly as a Post Captain would be expected to behave in Napoleonic-era naval fiction, making the overall post/port her focus rather than solely the running of her own ship, and AM making her Fleet Captain gave her the seniority to do that, just as making her Mianaai allowed her to act without people assuming superiority through their particular house. It's clear that AM can't directly control Breq, but that doesn't mean she can't find ways to make Breq's aims congruent with her own - she's had 3000 years to practise....

* And in writing this I find I'm now more comfortable talking about Breq as Breq, rather than Justice of Toren/One Esk Seventeen. I have mixed feelings about this.

[davidgillon]

(Was meant to be a reply to Kaberett, but I seem to have hit the wrong 'reply')

[davidgillon]

A point I meant to, but forgot, to make. It's become very clear that the tendency of the ships to have favourites, to love members of their crew, is, in strictly military terms, a weakness. In our contemporary military tradition, taking the ship's captain hostage will simply result in a stand-off while they rustle up a hostage rescue team, but here Sword of Atagiris immediately folds and surrenders its entire crew (of officers, the ancillaries would be considered disposable) into Breq's hands, even though it has no guarantee they won't be killed later and even though Breq just kneecapped Captain Hetnys to make a point.

There's an odd parallel here, between this situation, and that on Justice of Toren when AM ordered the execution of Lieutenant Awn, yet it's the arrogant, militant Sword of Atagiris that immediately abandons its mission in order to protect its favourite, while the far more thoughtful Justice of Toren carried through even to the extent of killing Awn with its own hands (as that's what Ancillaries are). Of course it then promptly shot AM, apparently to its own surprise, suggesting JoT may have been (unknowingly) as divided against itself as AM is. The difference of course is the instruction in JoT's case came from the Lord of the Radch, but even for Sword of Atagiris the instruction is from a legitimate superior officer in its chain of command.

[davidgillon]

Just read AL's Redditch AMA and I see she cites Cherryh as a favourite/influence. {Smug}

[axilet]

Some more observations, in addition to those already made:
Breq appears to be adopting Awn's MO for her own -- go to the slums, earn the people's trust, fix society's problems from the bottom up. I wonder how much of it is her own moral code and how much of it is a desire to atone by doing things that Awn would do. As Justice of Toren she engaged in territorial wars and killings of innocents/citizens without any apparent moral crisis. However both Justice of Toren and Mercy of Kalr do observe and comment on things like classism with disapproval, though it's hard to know whether it's because of favorites that were negatively impacted by the system, AM's meddling, something they came up with on their own or all three. Not clear what Sword of Atagaris thinks of all this but probably not every AI has the same opinions on the subject.

[kaberett]

Yes! I spotted this and then didn't think to comment on it, but yes, it is fascinating; I suspect influence-of-Awn coupled with... something that isn't quite sulking and isn't quite stubbornness and isn't quite Wanting To Make A Point, but... something in those areas?

[syderia]

I am not ready to be coherent in the expression of my feelings for Ancillary Sword, and I need to re-read both one after the one, but that ending (starting with the moment just before the coming-out in the shuttle) broke my heart a little bit.
Also, I did not expect to like Mercy of Kalr or her people as much as I did.